Please note: The following is an AI-generated transcript that has not been spell-checked. Misspellings are not intentional but are to be expected; please excuse them. To watch a video of this session, please find the link below. Thank you.


All right.


Hello and welcome to the healthcare facilities network. I’m your host Peter Martin. From Goslin Martin associates. As always, thank you for clicking on this episode. And today I am very happy to welcome my guests Skander Skander Hall from


common spirit health. He’s the new president of the American Society for Healthcare Engineering. Skanda is the President for Ashi in 2024, Skanda. Thank you so much for appearing for making time. I know you’ve got a busy schedule. It’s great to have you.


Thank you, Peter. And thank you for inviting me it is a great opportunity. And you know, getting the presidency is only a few days, I can feel the


load on me. And this will give me an opportunity to say what I want to say to the the members. Absolutely congratulations on your, on your election as Skanda said, we are recording this. On January 9, near January 8, I’m giving you an extra day. So we’ll we’ll post this pretty quickly. Because we do want to get it up a skillet starts but congratulations, how have those first eight days, Ben? While in fact it was good. You know, I am getting to know on LinkedIn, I put a message in LinkedIn seems to be well received a role wrote a letter and sent from assay website to all the members and is trickling into them. I’m here to serve. And I want to reach out to every member I’m not going to leave anyone United States and around the world. So I am here to Ashi I’m here for the members. Excellent. And I do want to I do want to get into that a little bit more obviously. That’s why we’re we’re discussing but in scandalous role that actually pays him that he gets paid for he’s the division director for common spirit healthy is the Division Director of Facilities Management, energy and infrastructure. Midwest. Skanda has hospitals in four states, just about 34 hospital locations across the Midwest. He’s based out of Omaha, correct. Skander you’re correct. And it’s a snow day here in Omaha.


snow days when you are a


when you’re a professional are a bit different than the snow days when you were a kid in school where school was canceled. You got to go outside, do some sledding, do some snow balls, whatever. But I’m sure you day like today maybe a little bit more quiet so you can get some more office time in. You’re correct. Yeah, because some of the people are not in the office. And so I don’t see anybody standing outside my eyes waving and I have a glass front in front of me. And sometimes you’re on a zoom call you’re on the telephone, but somebody is outside command is


but you know, over a period of time you get used to what you have to do. So let me ask you do folks wait out so you have a glass office to do folks wait outside your office for you to? Like you might be on a zoom? They weighed out now, as a courtesy. I haven’t no tea? No, I’m on a zoom call. So when they close the door, he there’s a note there. But sometimes, you know, this is a habit of a lot of people when you are the multiple


calls when they are like doing some zoom calls have 56 people ready for people? You can you know you can there are some icon in the zoom, you know you’re going to get a coffee or you’re going to break or something. So if there’s somebody is there, you know, sometimes I’m tied in zoom calls for hours and hours and hours. So if they’re vague, I know there’s something important I could take a break and just step outside and answer that.


How do you like?


How do you like zoom meetings? Are you used to them? Do you tolerate them? How? Because the reason I asked I was actually listening to a press conference earlier this morning, and it was via zoom. And when they got off the zoom, somebody commented, there was all that noise in the Zoom call like you could hear people doing their things. And when the zoom and the host said I am so tired of zoom meetings because you always get the background noise and people doing things. How do you feel about these zoom meetings? You know, looking back, like you have already mentioned, you know, I have many hospitals, there are hospitals like Connie, three hours away. And I used to have Des Moines that’s about three and a half, three, three hours away. So in order for me to have a meeting with one of my direct reports, I have to drive three hours but as a Zoom meeting, I can get on a call and one to one is really variable or even a few people because you know one of the things


you have you pay attention when it’s going more than 1015 people is something is a you’re not concentrating. Yeah. And you are listening to only a portion of what they’re saying. And, you know, you know, we do have this infection control code


to the meeting, I have a portion I have to present. So once I am my presentation is over, I’m tuned out, because there will be other people is presenting, I’m not listening. So


it’s a good habit, bad habit as a human, because you’ll see the more Zoom meeting, I think the less concentration you have. So, you know, it’s a mixed method message, whether it’s good or bad, is both. But if you really want to have a meaningful meeting, I would say it’s a personal meeting is the right thing to do. Yeah, yeah. No, I agree. So how do you


know you’re actually president? For the year, you’ve obviously been committed to Ashi? For what about 28 years now? You’ve been involved in the organization? You’ve been in health care for, what, 30 years, 3032 years? How do you balance these, especially as you look at the share with all How are you balancing your roles with Ashi with your role, which is obviously not insignificant, with common spirit? Well, Peter, let me take a minute back and


I didn’t


go to college to become a healthcare engineer. It happened in accident, and I was doing my master’s program in University of Kansas. And


my, I didn’t do my budget correctly. My funds were running a little low, I needed a job. And at the time, I was a student. I couldn’t work outside the campus. So I was looking at the employment board and see, there’s a vacancy for a maintenance worker part time 20 hours a week at the Watkins hospital in the university. Well,


I have no choice. Well, it’s five to nine. So I walked down to the hospital. And I bumped into the CEO in the hallway. So it was Jim Strober. And he walked into his office, and he’s started talking.


Very friendly guy. And he was asking me, my background and everything. And right away we click


as friends. And because he’s having a


quote to replace an override, which is about $12,000. And I’m an electrical engineer. So he was brainstorming with me. Hey,


so I asked.


So what’s the problem? It’s flickering. Well, then, we walked up to the second floor, they had they have two Oh, our rooms and 12 patient beds. And I said,


Can you hold on, you know, let me look at it further. And then I was hired next Monday, I’m starting to work. So to make a long story short, it was a loose wire. I fixed the wire and I saved him $10,000 before he started working there then being really good friends. Wow. So did you get hired in as a maintenance worker? Or did you come in as a student worker, I go to college in the morning, we go there at five o’clock, we clock we actually clocked in and basically, you know, changing lightbulbs and whatever we have to do they have a way for people to guys and two girls. And we are students so everybody is friendly with us. We do whatever they need. We are there till nine o’clock actually we work for two hours and we have a break time and after the break time we go to the basement and do our homework. So the student worker so it’s a state jobs so I get paid once a month. Even then that’s a big chunk of money for me to pump gas for my car. Yeah, so that was the beginning. So I will do it for about a few months. So I get to know what a hospital how would the doctors work, radiology department, I mean allowed, you know, to every corner of the building, and ino KU is a 24,000 students at the time. So it the hospital is a busy hospital. So in Lawrence, Kansas, I found out later, all the leaders in Lawrence meet at the Alba Paloma Country Club, to have lunch and play God.


So apparently there’s a Lawrence Memorial Hospital in town which has a 200 bed hospital. Robert Dolan was the CEO at the time. He was embarking on an expansion


collecting money that the pipe pocket mill million he was running into a problem because of some electrical transformer he has to build around it and he was casually telling this to this gym sitting side by side at the lunch table and Jim has spilled my navy I have a guy genius in my hospital saved me 1000s of dollars and next thing I know is he connected me to Robert Dolan. And yeah, I’m looking at a map and


Yep, they’re building around the transformer. So now you can move to France or not because for me, it’s simple. But because I have done major postage and substation being an electrical engineer,


so I saved him, I don’t know, several $1,000 $100,000. And he said, Can you help me to run this project?


Be there at the time, I couldn’t accept the job because I was on a student visa. At birth, I was in the process of getting a green card. So I said, if I get the green card, I will help you. It so happened that I got the green card. The first thing I know is now I can work outside the university called the mini highway. Wow. So I overseen the project for him, which took about close to two years. During the time the taxi the guy left the hospital. So you said can you oversee the hospital? Well, I’m finishing the project, overseeing the hospital, put my MBA program on hold, because money games priority.


That’s what I needed at the time. And I’m managing the hospital.


So he asked me, Can you hire me a facility director?


I said, Sure. So he’d bring me applications every day. 123 I look at it. Well, nobody was to the standard. I won’t hurt.


I think he got tired after six months came to me one day and said,


everybody I bring you don’t like, why don’t you do the job?




I told him sir.


I am an engineer.


I can fix your infrastructure. I don’t ever did Jayco whatever these guys are talking about. I don’t know anything about the regulation. He walked into his office, even through a pile of papers, pull out a flyer, American Society of engineers. The conference is within two weeks in Washington, DC. You said you’re a smart guy, you go to this conference, you will figure it out.


That’s how it’s done started. In 1990. I still remember the conference in those days. They actually ask the golf on Sunday. The company starts with a golf. So I am very excited, wrapping my golf clubs and everything flying to Washington DC played golf. First time made friends in the golf course.


When do the ash conference and I was in the front row. Tom Skipper is the president at the time. I was early morning 630. And they are in the hall. And so he is the he came early to practice his speech. So I got friendly with a man we bonded right away. He took my name and next thing I know I’m on acid committees. Wow. And he introduced me to Kansas City Chapter Kansas City.


Kansas State chapter two, I came back, you know, the first conference.


I think you remember those days, we give handouts.


And we have four sessions going in the same time. I’m so greedy. I want to listen to all four sessions. So what I do is I go to one session, take the handout, stay there. 50 days, go to the other session. Take the handout, stay there. 10 minutes. Go to the I go to all four stations. I came back to Lawrence Kansas, almost 20 pounds of paper. All presentations. Yeah. And believe me, I went through every piece of paper. That is how I learned


codes and regulations. compliances Well, I mean, as she as she was, as she was talking to sources, yeah. And I stayed in healthcare so long. Because of that she


I mean, they gave me the tools and resources that I wanted.


And the local chapters that I was affiliated with, gave me the comfort level that I was able to do the job much easier. Because I developed a friendship in Kansas City. In Kansas City chapters what we do is we meet in the hospitals so when we have a meeting, we tour the hospital I get to know how they function so within about a six months or one year I I knew every direction in Kansas City. Wow. I have been to every hospital in Kansas City. And eventually I went to every hospital in Kansas.


So if there’s a problem call back you know is pick the phone for your friend. Yeah.


Yeah. So that is a synergy as you give to the members.


Let me ask going back. So you came over. So you were on a student visa. So did you come to this? Where were you prior to coming to the states? And did you come to the States T? Why did you you want to get your Why are you getting your MBA? Did you say your undergraduate degree? What what did you think you would do after your degree relative to a career?


Okay, yeah, for a second party. I’m just gonna start in the middle of my life. So I was in the Middle East. I was working. I’m a electrical engineer graduated from University of Sri Lanka.


And I was working for koji lacs French company, who is the International electrical contractor.


So I was assigned to do post


electrical contracts in the Middle East. Okay, so I was I worked in countries, okay, you will not go nowadays, I was in Iraq, Iran, and Saudi Arabia. So I was building power stations, substation transmission lines, I was


living in suitcase in the sense my headquarters in France, I go there, they give me an assignment, I fly their domain project, get back to France, and they give me another project, get back to the other country, to the project, get back to France. I was a project manager work with multinational people in the sense of you, it’s a still a law in the Middle East, if you work in Saudi Arabia, you have to employ every country people. Because what they fear is if you bring one country people, they will conquer their country, or whatever it is, I have to employ 20% of Indians 20% of Pakistan is 20 personnel, Filipinos 20 personnel, blah, blah, and including British, American and Japanese and all kinds of you have a multi cultural people. Somehow, I even though I worked for a French company.


And then I worked. partnering with the American company, I got more friendly with Americans than French. So I had a choice, I could have stayed in France, because they offered me that they will give me a residency to work for the company forever. And then I got to be roommate with Americans in Saudi Arabia, they kind of convinced me stand up for you. This is not the place you want to be. I mean, they are very genuine. And I got the idea of coming to United States. And that’s another story how I got the visa and Kamya. So University of Kansas was the only university was very comfortable in the fees. When I looked at them in Boston, New York everywhere I applied, but their piece was astronomical, I could not pay University of Kansas, pretty either they made a mistake, or whatever it is, it was pretty low. And so I chose to come and I was making good money in Middle East data. I took a risk. I said, Wait a minute, I


had been living all my life in a suitcase and running from and I’m glad I did you know what’s happening in those countries? Yeah, in fact, you know, I could have been there decided they offered me to be there forever, but I am glad somebody has to make the decision. So that’s how I came to University of Kansas to do my masters. Well, I’m already


a electrical engineer, but you know, the student visa


prohibited me working outside the university and like a green card. Okay. Yeah. Wow. So it’s always interesting to hear. That’s what I like about doing doing this as you hear those career paths. So you took that’s a pretty big risk that you got a pretty big risk. Yeah. And you know, you’ve moved Yeah, I need only in life, sometimes things happen for good if I do run out of money, I would have graduated as an electrical engineer and would have joined the power company or whatever it is, in fact, even after college, when I was working in the largest Memorial Hospital, I did get an offer from the Kansas Power Company, almost the salary was same. They said I had to travel.


So but by then I have wondered with the Ashi and also with the healthcare. The difference between working for a power company and the healthcare is you have a lot of human touch and you work in a hospital. By the time you know, I go home either spoken or 2030 people.


When you work in the power company, you drive in a car look at the transmission line power station, you are interacting with machines.




for some reason, I feel that I have more satisfaction.


Working for somebody


You appreciate you and my endless as definitely help a patient walk out of the hospital happy smiling. Right? Right. It’s can see in front of our company, also you are doing a service for the whole country.


But it’s like you flip the switch, the light comes on. You don’t think of anybody who’s the power station running that power. Give you the electricity been in a hospital? You see it firsthand? Yeah. You have very good soft skills, communication skills, you’re a natural communicator, you’re comfortable doing all that stuff. Were you always that way? Or did you have to develop those skills? Well, I was, you know, eat a pizza, I believe in everybody has talent. And I think,


as a human, we need to identify their talent, and we need to nourish them. And we need to provide the tools to them. Whenever it’s working in the French company, I think the person who was my boss in Siemens, any point he realized that I’m a potential leader, and he coached me, and he gave me the freedom to manage people. And he told me, he called me into the office and sheds Canada, you know, when that I told you when we are having multinational culture, people and you know, trying to bring everybody together on a on a team, the French struggled because of the language and because of their culture and things. And he saw me that I interact much more smoother with people


by nature, so he says, kinda, I want you to lead the teams, because you have a way of


talking to people, you are their way of bringing their


talent out. So he saw the talent in me. And he told me that when he told me that, I stood, I decided, okay, I if I have the talent, let’s improve it. And, and he did it. And one day, he is surprised me he put me in this office about


lunchtime, we were in bus ride back. And he said Skanda take me to quit.


I am leaving and you are in charge. I said, seems silly. But you mean, you, I see that you can do my job. There is no need for me to be here. I’m handing over to you.


That’s probably equate and it is to call. So it’s kind of a sometimes you don’t realize until you are in the seat, that you can do the job. Yeah, so I learned a long time ago. And


I’m a friendly person. I get along with everybody. But from that day, I start developing my skill to be a leader.


Very good. Very good. So when did you decide you want to be actually president?


That’s another question. So when I was in New Orleans Memorial Hospital, I told you that I was, you know, with the Kansas City Chapter. And I think that there was they elected me as a president of Kansas City Chapter. And I had like 20 members. And I said, No, no, no 20 members is not enough. Kansas City has several hospitals. So what I started doing is with my board at the time, few board members and we changed the bylaws. We started in inviting the vendors, architects, engineers in the group, and I was a person of the chapter for about three years. And by the time I left, the membership was 180. Wow. And today, Kansas City membership membership is about 300. What I have seen that is by bringing the people together and start talking and having a team work and collaboration. We all grow. Healthcare cannot draw without drawing the directors and supervisors who work in healthcare. It has to grow together. That’s that’s the only way we can do and I see a lot of energy when people meet together. You know, when the when the guy sign the power plant and normally normally, typically, personally the director is in the basement, in a room, no windows and they are occupied eight hours a day, sometimes 12 hours a day. They cannot think out of the box. So when they take them when when you take them out of their facility to a common place and start talking to them. They are totally different. You see the talents. You see how capable they are. There are some people very good in electrical. There are some people very good and mechanical. There are some people very good in the plumbing. Put all together. You have you can solve any problems. Well, whenever Kansas City I call University of Kansas director, I call the St. Luke’s


Director, I call this or not can still interact that I have a problem. What you do? Yeah, he introduced me to an architect introduced me to an engineer. That is how we became friendly. When we grow whenever said Lawrence Memorial Hospital, like the leadership understood that what I am doing is helping them even see or recognize me. So I had the opportunity to grow the Kansas City Chapter. I was the president of the chapter. Then I did the same thing in Kansas chapter. Kansas City, I still remember I


said, be meeting Selena. And I said, guys, when we come here, let’s play golf,


before the meeting, and the first goal we had was one team. For people when they played golf, today, they have a golf tournament, more than 260 people participate. And I got an email yesterday sold out, while having a golf in April sold out. And what they do is they make money to charity, the same thing in Kansas City, they make money in the golf, and this gives the chance for people to get away from their work. Yeah, on that social ground interact. And, you know, brainstorming and you know, that is how the healthcare facility in integrating can grow. And I did the same thing. When I went to Virginia, I will work in Virginia Senator, I helped. I became the member of the Hamden chapter. And I came back to Omaha now and I was the president, again, the Nebraska chapter. So all this being a person of the chapters and seeing how these people can grow. I said, Why can’t I take this to the assay platform? Yeah. 1000 people? Yeah. And Peter, from 1990, I was happening, actually, I only missed one as you can pronounce that is in 2004, I went to attend the International Federation conference in Sydney, Australia. That’s all the time I missed, actually. Because at the time I, I made a bargain with my husband, hey, give me what the money you give me for. I go to actually, I’ll put the balance and go to Australia. Yeah. They said, Okay. It’s the same conference. So every every presidents I made in the African parents asked me, So when are you going to become the president? They pushed me. And


I think it’s a good thing. And I was on the assay for several times, I was in return late 2000.


Levin, because I changed up, I went to pizza, and three, then I got on the boat from reason to here. And then I came back to be tonight. So I was on the board. I think I wanted to give back to Ashley, but they gave me as he’s a good organization, and


they are doing great things. And I’m just going to take you to a little higher level. So I want to ask you how, how will you take that to the higher level what your goals are for this year, because a year is a short period of time. But before we go before I asked you that scan done, you hit on something, which is I don’t want to say it’s concerning. It’s you know, I agree with you that the face to face those interactions you get at those conferences, when you see people, whether you’re passing them in the hallway, or it’s in the lunch line, or whatever it happens to be. Those are, you know, those relationships are invaluable. Do you get concerned that in today’s world, especially as you have fewer employees, because you can’t get spots filled? And people are? Do you get concerned that we’re losing a little bit of that because of technology and the inability of people to get away from work and go to conferences, whether it’s actually or your local chapter? How do you how do you try to keep face to face alive? When sometimes it seems like people would rather almost step away and do it via zoom or technology? Does that concern you at all? Yes, I think Peter, you are reading my mind one of my goal as an actual president is


we have 2000 members 3500 members right now, the maximum we got from the Ashi is 4000 people so we have 8000 People still not coming to the conference and in my study, research what I did with his staff 80% of the people the same people come again and again and again. There are some organization when you are the VP or when you are the higher level you have the privilege to go to Agile conference so they come again and again. There’s another level of people that made the hospital they are the budget and say this you know, travel and things like that. So So at person, so my goal


Have this time is actually as a president to go out to many chapters as I can to go to their place and reach out to them. And ask the same question you’re asking. I think there’s a difference between zoom education and read in the magazines and go into Ashi. I think, you know, if you ask, you know, I don’t have a Tesla car, but you know, I use a lot of power drills. When you work in an organization. In my case, you know, after some time, you get frustrated, and you get drained a little bit, you’re tired. These conferences boost you back.


In when you when you go to the actual conference, and listen to all these speakers and the keynote speaker, your Dynamix keynote speaker, sometimes


you get a lot out of it. And you see your friends from East Coast, West Coast, sometimes you see people from Australia, Caribbean countries and talk to them, and you come back refreshed. Yeah, I think we need to give the opportunity to all our staff to get out of their hospital. And you can you know, I know we actually had to zoom conference during the COVID. And I was participating right here. And so it’s not possible to participate all day. Yeah, it’s not possible to be listening to zoom for for for I mean it. You see other benefit years, but it’s not as right as learning. I mean, it’s like me, me and my wife. Get your views. My wife’s a liberal to Alaska, when we were watching the television, there was a soup actually, you can see all that. Oh, nothing like looking at real because she has been in Alaska several times. So then, you know, we took a trip last last year.


to Alaska. And she was right. Yeah. Being likes Alaska. Being in Alaska. Yeah. I’d like to go to Alaska. Where did you go? Ah,


Portia. Juneau. Okay. Yeah. Nice. I’d love to, I’d love to see Alaska. And we drove around. And it’s wonderful. So yeah, you do something. And also, we need to, we need to give a break to our guys once in a way so that they can get out and mix with other people. That’s important. So it is it isn’t, you know, I know that common spirit. And ch I before you know, the the merger, you guys always seem to do a good job sending people to the Ashi to the Ashi conference. How do like for somebody who is maybe sitting there in their organization? Or maybe they’re that community hospital? You just mentioned, they don’t have a lot of money? How do you how do they advocate or or how do they communicate to their leadership that hey, this is important, because you’re probably not in your career now. Right? Without going to Ashley I mean, without that face to face interaction? Where are you now? So how do you? How do they advocate it? Send me send me? Yeah, that is one of the other goals on my ashy Peter is to educate our staff. One of the thing is, you know, we always struggle with you know, you, you’re 100% Correct. In a critical access hospital, I take a hospital in holds


North Dakota?


I have only one guy. Yeah, he’s a critical access hospital, he gets to help. And he is we are given him my help now, but most of the time, he was one guy, how can I take him away? It’s a big question. I tried to even get him to the North Dakota State.


Chapter is, for him to get away one day is hard. There are some issues, we were trying to struggling to help.


If we have at least four guys, you can manage to get one guy out for a week or three days, then neither are three guys we can see. And the other thing is succession planning is also is interconnected to with what you’re saying, of course, you know, it is guy, you know, I met this guy, and then I look at him and say, Okay, if you sit for a week, what am I going to do? How will we handle it that way? Then when it comes to conferences, we said, okay, look on go because we cannot be with you. So we as leaders, we need to elevate that we need to talk to the administration say well, it can happen to him. So we need to we need to figure that out. And as leaders, we need to help them and I’m working on that. That is one of the thing I am planning to travel to every chapter because I wanted to ask how they feel about not attending the meetings. Yeah. So


going to every chapter, when do you start on that? That goal? Actually, you know, I have already working on a calendar with the ICC.


My first trip starts in February.


I think I have to attend


ashtray binder conference in January, so I’m going to start it. It’s not possible for me to hit all 50 chapters. But the you know, at least I’m picking one chapter on each region. So I have 10 chapters I can hit. And my goal is to reach out to the people who cannot attend and see and talk to them personally. And, you know, I wonder to see, they also have talents, like everybody said, there’s talent, how can we use their talent and the chapter talent with the Hashi? If it’s it couldn’t be a good relationship going forward? How can you as


as the president of ASEAN, those are great and worthwhile goals, right, as division director at common spirit as president of Ashi, as you go to these chapters, as you talk specifically to those members, what would you try to do as a follow up to that? And what kind of constraints you in pushing your goals forward? Or are there constraints and pushing your goals forward? My organization is fully supporting me on this mission. We believe as a common spirit, we are in 22 states, almost 204 Plus hospitals we have, and some of them are


partnerships, some of the own and everything. And we believe as a commencement deal with my boss, David Jones and clovers, Messina.


As healthcare grows, we need to grow together. Yeah, I believe, and we believe in collaboration, not competition. Competition is a disaster. I mean, I am in Omaha, and you know, I’m friendly with other hospital directors. And we have a collaboration and




I think I see that coming up in the technical, clinical world as well. We don’t want it to have the same service in this town to hospital competing with


each other, rather have one service in one hospital, better service rather than the hospital. I think in our in case, if we have more time in when I was in Kansas,


if you have a motor that burned out that I cannot get it from a supplier, my competition provides me the water. And we get that with the permission of the leadership. Okay, this hospital, they don’t have a fire pump that burned out, we have a spell, and we’re going to give it and we had that kind of relationship. That’s the only way for us to prosper. We need to help each other. Is that does that require the


collaboration, not competition? Does that require a mindset change? For folks to think that way? And how did you get how do you get to a point where people buy into the collaboration, not competition. The platform is actually the platform is the local chapter. So when you meet there, you know, we’ve been on for an example in Nebraska, when you meet in the county and we play golf in in the county grounds. We are playing golf with our competition.


They are my golf partner.


And we feel friendly, and there’s no difference between what he does and what I do. As far as you’re concerned. If there’s a vacancy, I have my competition applying, I interview them to come and work in my facility


for facility director, so you know, we are all in the same profession. It’s like, you know, the pilots from Delta,


getting a job in United Airlines and United Airlines getting a job in British Airways. I mean, the all the education has to be saved for any pilot to move around. Yeah, so I think I look at that analogy and you know, helps people and the baby do that is to bring these people together once a year in a common platform. I can only think of that being the local chapters and he actually does a great job you know, bringing presentations from two different system together in a presentation if I’m right that how to manage multiple hospital is going to be


Terry Scott and Dennis Ford is going to be both in two different system is going to be in the same platform. Even the first stage presentation is more valuable than just listening to only one system person is totally you had to change your mind. Yeah, that is one of the thing that I like to get the people from the hospital away because they are in that facility. They are just


brainwashed to do the same thing? And when you go and meet other people, hey,


they’re doing something different than what I do. Right? Right, the light bulb goes off.


Do you have to just last question on that? Because it’s, it’s such a interesting concept because people in facilities and you’ve mentioned it,


for the most part, you’re always willing to help each other out. Because you kind of know what that what it’s like to be alone on that boat in the middle of the ocean with nobody helping you. Is it is that messaging, when you elevate that messaging to the sea level? To the folks above? Do you need to sell them on that concept? Are they usually because they’re looking for service lines profit, and sometimes it can be different focus? Is it a difficult message to sell? Most of the time, Peter, it is, what we do is a cost saving, okay? It’s not expensive, I’m giving a motor to my friend, which is about 5000 or 4500. Not free. Because my he has already ordered the motor, that motor is coming, it’s going to come straight to my he’s going to give it to me. Yeah. So basically, I’m giving a motor that was sitting in the shell for two years and getting a brand new motor to replace it. I’m just temporarily moving. I mean, we we do things to help each other in there. There are times I have seen my people across town to help another facility, of course, in the same system, that that is that is available. I mean,


I have called my competition and asked that, hey, I have a problem in my hospital. The contractor is working in your hospital, can you release him to come and work in my hospital? And he said, Sure, because the US break down is much more serious than what they are doing it now. So that kind of relationship is sorry about that. Relationship is what I’m talking about. So it is not hurting anybody? Yeah. That many transplant? Very, very. So I’ve asked you a number of times, but I’ve never really asked you I said we will get to it. And you’ve mentioned a couple of things. But what are your for this year? What are your goals is actually President?


Well, I think when I when I never found the campaign platform, I said three things, that one thing is to change, adapt to change, adapt to, you know, as he has a vision, every I have a vision, we have to leave the patient. We cannot just say that’s what I’m going to do it and stop it. And that is three things is part of the changes that communication, collaboration in education. I am focusing on education. More to the passage, the directors, because one of the thing, Peter, the difference between me and I’m looking at some of the people came from the


the ranking.


I have


no fear going to the administration and talking to the administration explaining what they need. I don’t see that from the people coming from the ranks. And you have a good illustration in one of your presentation of all kinds of fascist detectors can they come up in thing we need to educate them ragging and the new generation is moving in the old generation is kind of in the next five years moving out. I think we need to educate the new generation, the new entry people not to follow the old generations, habit


pedia to teach them the new way of doing things because one of the thing is, you know, we are doing all the right things, but we are not in pace with the technology we are behind. Because we have good people. We don’t like to complain. If something goes wrong, we try to piecemeal and put it back to work. Yeah, it’s a difference between the new generation or the IT guys a new generation because they will know it the old generation. I mean, they scream, okay, if you don’t fix the computer, it’s going to crash, right software has to be updated by midnight, otherwise, your computer will not work. So you get the new software, you get your new computer. We don’t say that in in our facility world. If the boiler is not working somehow, you get the violet going, right. We don’t go up to the administration and explain and we don’t make noise. The real this is what he needed. So we need to coach them, how to plan the future. We need to teach them we have to use the way it’s going to be and we need to give that early notice to the administration. So that’s very interesting. Skander


because you know as you say sometimes


As a facility person can be their own worst enemy. Because they bandaid things along, they keep it going, they keep it, fix it, they you know, and then one day it fails. And then it’s like, well, why did you let it fail?


Yeah, I think it is. It’s its nature. You know, most of the


older generation, I hate to say older generation, experience people.


They’re good people. They are very, very,


what you call it painful in maintaining things. So they don’t want to complain, because something went wrong. Okay. Let me see whether I can weld it and put it back. It’s a badge of honor. Yeah, yeah. And they do it. But when you see that, not happening in other departments. So we are not moving in the same speed. Okay, for an example. And something came to my mind.


I was sitting with a CFO in one particular hospital. And there was in between buying a CAT scan of buying a Silla for the CAT scan area where I had to put and he said, Well, this cat scan is not giving good images of the doctors needed. Can I get this on the budget, and we’ll buy your children next year. I was a nice guy. I said, Okay. And he bought the CAT scan. Next year came, the next year came and then next year came and I’m sitting with the same CFO, they’re going to buy an other CAT scan after four years because this is


is outdated now. 64 slide or something now, they weren’t 128 slides. So we need to get it. So I said, Mr. CFO, you told me four years ago, and I’m still sitting, but you’re buying the second catch can now I don’t have the chiller. Right. Well,


he smiled, and I smiled, and I said, Okay, when the day comes when this crashes, then we have an emergency on the within six months, that’s exactly what happened. And the cat can was down to one week, and we got this Silla put together, I mean, period. It is their fault. No other financial system is that that we always give priority for return on investment much. So they are they’re doing their job. And we need to do a better job putting together in a common spirit. I think, finally, we realized and we have hired more people who are working on this because sometimes it is difficult for a facility director at the hospital to do all this. So there is somebody else who can plan this out. For us, it works out very well. So there you have a plan


for the next five years, what we need, or next 10 years what we need based on because now we have the technology, which can tell us based on what we import, okay, this machine will not last more than this year. You know, they have better information than those days.




so goal one adapt to change for the for, for your presidency, is that the first goal. And the second one is to align


codes and regulations. And Ashley is doing a great job. We have we have done so many advocacy, efforts of


talking to the code officials and




fire those exit signs and things like that big of a whole list. And I wanted to step in with the actual team traveled with them. So here as the president who has also been the background of my carbon spirit, helping many hospitals that we manage, we have some data that we can show it to them


little more morale and also support to them. We are going to accelerate that program, bring it in some supports. The third one is elevating our profession. I think we are working with the SEC, how to educate how to how to speak the language of the CFO CEOs, and


we are getting better. And I couldn’t be then


we can just keep moving. Yeah, right direction. Yep. I’m gonna put a plug in for an episode that we did. And I’ll link to it at the end of yours.


had a conversation with Robert hacker who’s the director of FM out in California. It was Robert and his CFO on the same zoom call. And it was it was just about what you just said. By no Robert smartest guy


Yeah, yeah, I think I let him hear the said that. Robert, you are the one that the smartest guy is a good friend. He has Yeah, he’s a, he’s a great guy. And yeah, we would talk about that. And he would talk about kind of that relationship. And I said, Well, why don’t you see if you can get the CFO on the show? Let’s have you and your CFO and kind of talk about that relationship. And I think one of the keys and what he I mean, I’d be interested to hear your opinion is, you know, the CFO, Roberts CFO was very willing to hear Robert talk. And it didn’t always mean that he was going to get what he wanted. But he was at least open to that conversation. I think part of the problem these days is CFOs can be torn in so many different, getting their time getting their attention, getting them into a meeting, I remember when I was working in healthcare, you couldn’t even get them into a meeting. Nevermind, talk to them. How do you find that to be an issue, the attention of the CFO? The their their time? Their willingness to listen?


Yeah, I think this is this is happening everywhere, Peter.


The personal level? Yeah, in my, in my capacity, I had made friendship with everyone that I can walk into the office, or if I say that I’m outside, they will take the time to talk to me. But I don’t think everybody in the facility level has that luxury, or the CFOs are always under pressure by the CEO, because they are looking at the numbers every day. I mean, they are looking at the patient


revenue every day, not every month, every week.


So there are more changes, if is not going the right direction. But you can always find ways to talk to them. I am in the Miami speech, speech, I said that American College of Healthcare Executives, I’m partnering with them, I’m a member in Nebraska, I do attend their meetings, I do. In fact, I’m going for dinner on the eighth


18th of this month in Nebraska, sometimes I get a chance to meet the CFO CEOs in those meetings, and especially they are loosened up. And again, I told you the same scenario, they are much different when they are outside the hospital. I can talk to them freely, and I make relationships with them in those meetings. And then once you have that relationship piece you to get along with them. And the see of course is again the return on investment is what they are


concentrating. Yeah. And they can easily calculate the return on on investment on MRI and CAT scan. But when it comes to the boilers putting a new burner and


Subodh $6,000 and the controls, it can save a lot of gas, but


our guys need to know how to put the RFP are high. And so it is again you know, PJs communication, and how have you put across the


case to them. So you’re


you’re you’re an electrical engineer, obviously, you’re, I’m assuming your mind your engineering and engineering type mindset. But everything you’ve talked about, you’ve also put in you’ve talked about relationships, communications, big picture scandal relative to your career, which skill and I know you can’t divorce skill sets because you have them so it’s certainly good. But it sounds like that your soft skill package is almost as critical to your success as kind of that mechanical mind that electrical engineering mind that you have that without without that relationship part of it, it would have been difficult to achieve what you’ve achieved. Is that fair?


Yeah, because you know, education is a massage of your brain. Yeah, I he basically you know, electrical engineering I learned Yeah, you know, to keep the country lit.


If if your power station goes down, you are totally black. There are times I was in charge of a power station. It was a total blackout.


Same thing comes to a hospital when the hospital Ettrick electrical system. I think when the Joint Commission comes they look into the automatic privacy generator monthly run and all those things because that is very critical for the hospital operation. The Joint Commission one of the thing that you know, I see the Joint Commission, when it’s on the beginning of my career in the healthcare use everybody.


The facility guys do things for joint commission. It took me a while to change their attitude guys you are not doing


Is the Joint Commission, you are doing this to keep your patients safe. Joint Commission is just there to make sure you are doing the right thing. So you don’t need to worry, you don’t need to prepare for joint commission just do the right thing. And I taught them again and again, now many of my hospital, they don’t care.


They don’t care when Joint Commission plans because they are doing the right thing. So my my background on electrical engineering is yes, we keep, we do certain things to keep the power engines running. So we never have a failure. So that same discipline applies to the hospital. But the difference in the hospital is you can never find somebody who knows everything to run a hospital, either you are good in electrical or you are good in plumbing or good in


HVAC to find somebody who can manage all of this is where we are finding it difficult. Yeah, and they are. And it’s when you have a big hospital, University Medical Center where you have like 28 people, to managers, or director, easy to run, when it comes to the middle class hospital, I think you have that illustration really good on your presentation. Very well done. When it comes to the middle middle class, middle class hospital, one director and then


eight to 10 people, different way of managing, then you come slower. One manager and four people, then you go down three or two people. So it has a different different skills. We’re it’s interesting. Actually, I just put it out today, which will be January 8, and this will be following it. I did a career ladders Episode Three in and I took your I worry about the community hospitals, the critical little smaller hospitals there and listen, you manage them. So you know what the pains are. But those rural hospitals that are out middle of nowhere, and I figured, well, you know what I’m going to do career ladders, just and what I did is I took credit, I looked at critical access hospitals, Alex wanted to see in our resume base. And again, I never put names on anything but who was in the critical access hospitals, and what were their different? How did they get there because they don’t follow that traditional path. So I think is, you know, you talked about seeing different resumes, I think HR also needs to look at kind of possibility, like who are our potential directors at these critical access hospitals, which are so important, and they don’t always follow that traditional route that you would expect. Some of them come out of, you know, heavy equipment operator, but they’re the equipment operator, and then they transitioned in. So you got to be open to some of those non traditional paths.


And I’ll be honest, you’re right, critical access is totally a different animal. When it comes to management. I have critical access hospital, the facility manager take care of EBS services, they take care of security if there’s somebody comes in




trouble in the emergency department, because you’re the guy who’s the security guard there. And so they do everything, you know, if there’s something that they they need to be for an example, if if a doctor is flying into a critical access hospital in one of the rural AI airport, a facility guy go and pick up the doctor from the airport. Hey, he’s the transportation for the doctor. So they do wear multiple hats. So some of the things that you said why can’t they go to actually components? Why can’t they go to the local conference here? So you know, he has so many things lined up in his daily duty. And sometimes I feel the critical access hospital manager or director has more responsibilities like Ghana, bigger hospital director because they have other people who can take care of.


But not to get a license. Yeah, you’re correct. Yeah. Which one? I want to be respectful of your time. And I know you had a couple of cancellations due to your to the snow day. But two more questions. I think you are you I’m good to go for whenever you want. I mean, I don’t want the audience to be listening and getting bored. That’s one of the thing but no, I don’t. Okay. Yeah. I appreciate your time. So you you alluded to this, the New Year’s note you wrote and I started on LinkedIn. I’m on LinkedIn account. Okay. You wrote in the midst of a rapidly changing healthcare delivery system, we must stay ahead of the curve.


What are some ways to stay ahead of the How can Ashley membership facility directors, facilities people, how can they stay ahead of the curve?


I think you know, I’ll start with what’s what’s going on with what I know in


thing, Peter.


The way healthcare delivery system has changed. I


You don’t see very many people sitting in the waiting room in the halls in the hospital when they walk in.


So the hospital administration is thinking of, Okay, do we need argues that ministry of services, can we convert into a different clinical operations? And every hospital is thinking about that.


We as facility engineers should be on the table during the discussion. I’ll tell you one example I overheard hospital is trying to remove all these


admission areas and some of the administrative areas and make into clinical so that the physicians can see the clinical. And when I overheard this, I came back to my office and looked at the


documents I have, well, that is a business occupancy, we declare that as a business occupancy. Now, if you’re going to convert to a clinical occupancy, there’s a whole lot of things we have to do. We need to message that to the administration, we need to sit and talk together for moving forward.


That’s when I’m taking we need to be ahead of the curve when they are making these arrangements. There are also a lot of ideas going on when the hospitals spaces we have too much of inventory right now. Because


I don’t know what happened. There’s a shortage of nurses. I don’t know whether you happen to see the big news.


P the


IDI see that I just printed here. So that you know, I remember the whole, you know, the US faces an estimated shortage of between 38,220 4000 primary care and specialist physicians by 2034. I mean, I don’t I don’t give literally believe what they say is, so we are going through a nursing shortage. Based on this, we are going to go through a primary care and specialist position 30,000 to 224,000 is a lot what’s going to happen.


So we need to be facility engineering should be aware of that. So if you have a larger hospital, and a larger power plant, so in this hospital in the future,


if this is going to be cut down, we need to think about


instead of buying a 201,200 ton chillers Can we buy to 600 tank chillers, so that we can step our cooling so if there are some hospital they have now we are shut down some flows.


But we don’t have the capacity to cut down the cooling capacity because our system is not designed. So we are closing the dampers and closing certain things. Still, it’s not clear vision. So we need to be thinking, I don’t think we will be still building hospitals to replace old hospital. Whatever we are building, we need to be designing in such a way that if we have


another episode, how we could compartment eyes, how we could


bring the people in, bring the people out, we spend an enormous amount of money. And there are some stuff be bought. We don’t know what to do. Yeah.


Are we going to store it? Pay money can then be used four years from now. We don’t know that. So we need to be thinking about that in the future. And that’s what I said. I mean, we don’t want to sit and wait. And other thing comes because


what we did, we did the right thing.


COVID surprised us. But we we survived the struggle. But we cannot go through this one more time.


We had to be prepared.


So I think we need to I mean, there are a lot of lot of meetings happening clinical staff physicians.


I think we need to be on on the table with them to understand what they’re doing. And we need to be planning accordingly. And I’m talking about when we are planning we need to bring in architects, engineers all should be in this meetings.


How do you get a seat at the table if the organization will give you a seat at the table? You will have to


get educated. You should be recognized first that’s one of the thing as US promoting CHF


And CHC says she has she? No, you asked a question, Peter, how did they learn to speak like this or get to the front of the people?


You had knocked the door.


I don’t wait for my CFO or CEO, come to me, I go to them. I go to the CEO, and I present myself, you know?


If I ask for an appointment, either they can say yes or no.


I’m taking 5050 chance when they meet with them, I can put my case in front answer is yes or no. But most of the time 90% of the time, I get the yes answer. Once you want, they start developing trust in you. When you ask they believe you. They give it to you. And you know, there are some times it comes a little


overload when my directors asked something wild. Let’s see, if you discount that. And if you say yes, then I’ll approve it. So they have to be prior to say yes. And they approve it. Because why is that happening? Because I build the trust with them. Yeah, so eat it, you can do it overnight. It’s take time. And I don’t expect somebody


get the respect I have. Within a couple of years. It took me a long time to get where I am. So but I am willing to teach them how to get there. That’s one of my goal as a as the president and where I am in my comments, Spirit help. My goal is to educate the people and


whatever I can to bring them up in their life.


Do you feel stressed in your role


in your roles?


Well, it’s a loaded question. And, you know, stress is not always bad.


I do well, under stress. I have made the right decision and the best decision decisions under stress.


I do I don’t mean that. I was gonna say what about you allows you to do that what what trait allows you to make those good decisions under stress.


Because it


stimulates your brain. It brings out all the


all the


other intelligence you have. It comes and


goes gives you the best time to make the decision.


And, and these are short time stress, but they are a long time stress. You know one thing I do exercise one hour a day. It doesn’t matter whether it snows I got up early because I want to I want to be here in my office at eight o’clock. I did my exercise. I don’t stay in a hotel where there is no exercise place. So I make sure I’ve been booked the hotel. So I That’s definite. I don’t do it on Saturday and Sunday.


Unless you know, I leave it that I give a break for my body as well. Yeah, I do walk my dogs. On a good day. I have two golden retrievers. And sometimes if they have an issue, I live in a golf course. So you know we wait till seven o’clock. So all the golfers though.


I sit them on a key and I tell my problems to them.


They listen. Yeah. And they don’t talk back. And you know, when you tell your problems to them, your stress level goes down. Because you get


out a few. And sometimes


you cannot tell everything your wife or your friends because when you repeat that stress goes up, because they might give something that is more negative. So the dogs absorbs it very well. Yeah.


Okay, yeah. And the third thing is


I like wine, I think a glass of wine.


So stress doesn’t bother me. Because one thing most of the time


when you’re watching a TV, I don’t like many things I see on the TV, but I have no control.


But I have a control over my control. I can shut the DVR or change the channel.


So there are things that we cannot control. Yeah, you have to let it go.


You have to let it go. Yeah, there’s no point in vani. That’s one of the way to get rid of stress. Yeah, and then see what you can control. I tried to tell that to my guys. And you know, it’s very hard. Yes.


And you use those three words, let it go, I have I have an acquaintance of mine who was let go from a role was in it for 28 years, and is having, and it was unexpected. And he’s having a difficult time dealing with that. And I said that to that. And I know it’s it’s really easy to say right it is but letting it go at a certain that is such a key, right? Because once you it’s gone before you can move on, you got to let it go and get past that. And it’s it’s difficult sometimes for people to do that. Yeah, it’s very difficult, but you know, in life.


Always you find a better opportunity, right? People, people get comfortable


doing what they do for a long time. And then they sit there and dwell on it. But sometimes change is good. And most of the people I have seen they go to a better position, and they are much happier. If you’re not happy in your position. And if stress is bothering you,


you need to change.


Very well. Standard things. Yeah.


So if the


if there, what are some ways? You know, as Ashley, as you’re the Ashley, President, you got a big year coming up?


What are the Are there ways that people can assist you in achieving these goals? How can people help? How can you you’ve talked about how you think you can help people? How can people help you if they want to? I think people and big companies and big organization, you know, including you, Peter, I think we want to have a collaboration, I believe, again, collaboration not competitive, if there is an organization for an exciting new firestopping companies, fire alarm companies, gas companies, if they can come and tell us, what is the best way for us to maintain, we place equipment, I welcome them, because I want them to be a partnership with Ashi.


I know, I tell this to everybody in the in the vendor world, when I go to the chapters, when people come to the hospital, we give the best treatment we can we fix you in the emergency department. And it comes with the price. Because in order for us to maintain this facility, it cost a lot of money. And if you all can help us to bring the cost down. I think the beneficiary is us again, knock on wood, I don’t want to be in a facility when I need I need them. Right I will get a bill and the insurance will pay or whatever it is. But I think as a as a collaboration, the vendors should help us. You know, I always welcome them. If you see that.


I’ve taken examination, I’ve been an example. Okay, there’s a


Joint Commission regulation is telling us this is a way to fix the wall.


Teach us how to fix the wall, give us a lesson. And in the trade show or maybe an even abstract and give a class session in the Ashi conference. Innovation convergence not anymore as you can


change them change and tell us how to do it. Because if you can teach us how to do things cost effectively.


We can I mean, I’m not hoping healthcare costs is going to go down. But definitely it’s going to help us. Yeah, you know, so I encourage collaboration. I’m one of the person feed the vendors as partners. I don’t think that they are here to make money with us because everybody has a job.


And person who is working as on the vendor side, he has a job he has to make money for living. That’s what his job is. But as long as you are not thinking of only money and competition, compete the other guy and get into the door. You’re welcome to work. And that’s one of the things that I asked I invite people to partnership with ash. That’s a great distinction you made there. Last thing Skinner What do you know we’ve talked about cost and kind of like the employee shortage. From your perspective, what do you see as the two or three biggest challenges that face this discipline of healthcare facilities management?


I think in the market the major thing happening PTAs as leaders




we are he talked about the physician shortage clinical shortage and we are going to see a


In exchange of the senior people exiting the healthcare, and the young people come in, so there’s going to be a transition, we have to heavily depending on the outside vendors, mechanical, electrical contractors, they’re also going through the same scenario. Yes. So it’s going to be,


it’s going to be a challenge. But you know, like, how we handle the COVID, we will handle it, it’s going to be a little costly, sometimes it’s going to be a little challenge, and you know, stress level will be a little higher, every body is going to happen, inevitable. Now, that’s the lifecycle. The work and the people who are


at the age, they have to enjoy their life, they can’t be staying with us forever. So that’s going to happen, and we will go through that. The other thing is, infrastructure, I think,


I don’t want to talk about the politics, but I think we had a plan for the government is going to put out some money for the infrastructure, but I don’t think it’s going to happen soon.


The infrastructure is aging. And


that’s everywhere. And everybody’s looking at the costs, we need to have a balance between the cost and the patient care. And I think the patient guys priority, but we will overcome that with technology. And some of the


newer machines, boilers, chillers coming, nowadays, much more efficient, run better, less breakdowns, that should help, you know, this labor shortage, because if we have a new equipment, new system, things are much smoother. I remember those days, people work on the weekends, and more and more I see, the weekends are pretty much


nobody gets called unless every now and then we have things. So be as a healthcare, facility engineering, we are getting much better.


You know, I hope be the trend goes, Yeah, continues to go up. And I’m proud of the way our people are handling our


systems and controls. And


it’s a matter of time that you figure this out how to fund the infrastructure.


That’s a good and hopeful message. I can see why you are elected president. Oh, thank you.


You have to be optimistic. But


we are here to you know, sometimes, some sometimes, you know, there are guys who come and complain. And you know, they say this is down that down, this is down and I kind of look at them and smile at them and say, Hey, Sam,


if nothing breaks, there’s no reason for us to be here. Right. I get a message and you turn around and walk. I said, Yeah, I mean, put it this way. I mean, I am, you know, 9090 90 When I walked into the Lawrence Memorial Hospital,


that’s not the power plan I see now. Yeah, I mean, we are much more better. We are much more advanced.


We are on the right choice. Absolutely. Anything Skanda that we did not cover or anything you want to ask the President any final message to leave to leave to the audience. I think I wanted to give him mercy to other healthcare facility engineers, they are not alone. We are here. And she’s here to help them. And I wanted to say I, you know, there are many places to work in this world. And


they chose to work in health care. And I wanted to say thank you, because it’s a calling.


You know, I’m not talking about religious or anything like that. But it is a profession that will reward you. There was a boss one time, you know, I did something vote and he came and put his hands on the shoulder and told me, I don’t know, stand up. I don’t know how to pay you. But I know you have a place in heaven. I mean, you know, whatever he said, is engraved in my brain. And I think about in difficult situation. Wait a minute, it’s hard for me today. It’s a long day. But I have a reason what I’m doing, why I’m doing. So I want to say thank you, for all of you in calcaire. Engineering, believe in yourself. And don’t hesitate to reach out to me or actually board members or anybody at any time because I think like Peter said, I’m on LinkedIn. I don’t used to be watching that. But now being an actual president. I will make sure that at least I’ll check on that every at least 48 hours and add that to your list.


have to do is scan? Yes. You know, there are some people who definitely have my email address or phone at least they have a place they can reach out to me. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I want to thank my guest today Skander Skander. Ross ganda is division director, common spirit health, Midwest Director of Facilities Management, energy and infrastructure. And on the side, he is also serving as the Ashi. President for 2024. Scandal, we’ll see you at the innovation conference gotta get used to that. New Names, that new terminology. Is that difficult to change after? I mean, they’re such great name recognition for the ash everybody Ashi annual. Now the innovation conferences, is that


a name change difficult? Or do you think it was it’s do given where the where the discipline is going and where we’re going as a


field? I think it was a little long discussion when we wanted to name change the name, but it’s the right thing to do. Because we don’t want to be, we want to do we want to be a change? Sure. Changing in the world. I think, you know, it’s very early for me to give me give you all the details, but it’s going to be different in the theme is to have more time for people to interact in between the session because the earlier one is we know we have sessions after sessions after session, like you said, you see a guy going on the escalator, up and down, team, and then I’ll catch you later


into the conference. The time is gone, you are catching your plane back home. But this time, we are trying to give us some time in between so that we can socialize and you know, get to know each other and all about T’s. Networking. Yeah, as he’s about networking. I have so many friends. I met through agile conferences


that I faithfully go every conference. So thank you, Peter, for your time. And thank you for inviting me. Great opportunity and great way to get the message out. My pleasure. Thank you so much for your your time, and we will see you on the road. We’ll see you in Anaheim in July. July. Right. Yeah. Excellent. Thank you. thank my guests scan to scan around. And as always, thank you for tuning in to the healthcare facilities Network. Have a great day. Thank you. Bye.